The Philippou Brothers Would Eat Knives For Their Art

The Philippou brothers are practically buzzing with energy. I’m the first person to sit down with them for an interview in a warm, spacious conference room in A24’s New York office, after the Australian twin brothers and filmmaking duo had premiered their new horror movie, Bring Her Back, the night before in New York City. Danny Philippou, with his shock of bleach-blonde hair, leans back in his chair (I’m worried he will fall out) while Michael Philippou, his dark brown hair close-shaven, wanders in and starts chatting immediately with us. As we sit down to begin our interview, I ask them the big question: how did they feel about showing their new movie to an audience for the first time?

“It was just the most nerve-wracking thing ever,” Danny Philippou confesses to Inverse.

“It's terrifying,” adds Michael Philippou. “It's always the most – ”

“It's the scariest part,” Danny interjects, in just the first of many excitable interruptions the two brothers will have for each other throughout our conversation. But they’re less interruptions than a case of two brothers completing each other’s thoughts and sentences — not a total surprise, considering they had been working together nonstop to get the finished cut over to distributor A24 just a few days earlier.

“It was surreal [to see it] this soon.”

“We just finished it [so] we haven't properly had time to digest it ourselves,” Danny says. “With Talk to Me, there was a break and we were able to fully come to terms with the end product and things like that. So it was surreal [to see it] this soon.”

They’ve come a long way from their first feature film Talk to Me, which enjoyed a long rollout that culminated in a buzzy international premiere at the Sundance Film Festival. And they’re even further from their time as YouTubers RackaRacka, the channel that launched them to fame as purveyors of rowdy DIY action shorts. The understated, bleak new horror film feels miles away from their origins, and even further away from the brothers themselves: There isn’t a moment during our conversation about Bring Her Back when either of the filmmaking brothers aren’t gesticulating wildly or enthusiastically interrupting each other. But the two are never more animated than when they start speaking about the beloved star of their new film, the inimitable Sally Hawkins.

“She's such a powerful performer and every film that she's in, she feels completely different,” Danny says. “And she hadn't done a role like that before. She hadn't tread into that real horror territory. And so that was just the most exciting thing to us.”

In Bring Her Back, Hawkins plays Laura, a foster mother to two recently orphaned siblings, the blind Piper (Sora Wong) and her protective older step-brother Andy (Billy Barratt). Laura treats Piper like the daughter she just lost, but gives Andy the cold shoulder, and has a strange, tense dynamic with her other foster child, the mute Oliver (Jonah Wren Phillips). But things take a turn for the disturbing when it becomes clear that the grieving Laura has sinister, maybe even satanic, plans for Piper.

Michael and Danny Philippou wrote the role with Hawkins in mind, though at the time, landing her was more a pipe dream than a real prospect. That’s because they were penning the script at the same time as their debut feature, Talk to Me. At the time, they were still up-and-coming filmmakers, but with the smash success of Talk to Me in 2022, they managed to land Hawkins for the part in Bring Her Back.

“There was no way we thought that she would say yes,” Danny says. “But she gravitated so much towards the character and towards Laura. It was an amazing process, finding the character with her.”

Inverse spoke with Michael and Danny Philippou about how they got Hawkins on board, what the “psycho-biddy” genre has to do with the movie, and which one of them chewed on knives to help craft one of the most disturbing horror scenes of the year.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

Your first feature Talk to Me is a brilliant mash-up of tones. It's funny, it's scary, it's moving, it's thrilling. But Bring Her Back is kind of a shift. It's a much more somber follow-up than maybe people would've expected. Considering your origins in the YouTube, making really bombastic action videos, why did you choose to go in this direction for your next movie?

DP: We deliberately wanted to have a different energy from the first. We knew we wanted it to be a horror movie, but we wanted to challenge ourselves in a different way and express it in a different way. So it's so hard because it goes against our instincts as YouTubers. With a YouTube video, you have five seconds to gain an audience's attention and, if not, they're going to swipe away. It’s always, "Hey, whoa, whoa!" It's about that energy. So it's this thing of going against your instincts almost to try to tell a story in a different way. And we want it to be a snowball and to start ... And so even the opening shot was originally uncut, three minute tracking shot coming down and going around the procession and it looked great but, by doing that, it affects the stuff after it. So it's constantly trying to tread the-

MP: Control the pace. Control the tone.

DP: We're obsessed with doing something more character-driven. And I'm obsessed with psycho-biddy films and Bette Davis. That was the biggest inspiration point. We knew that it was right. Because we'd lost our close family friend right at the start of pre-production and stuff, that affected the script and changed how we did so many things. It just affected the whole process.

“She hadn't tread into that real horror territory. And so that was just the most exciting thing to us.”

I want to talk about Sally Hawkins, who is so good in this role. She's so amazing and she's known for her more whimsical roles (like playing the mom in the first two Paddingtons). You talk about how she was the first actor you thought of for the role. But why her, specifically? Because she isn’t quite what comes to mind for the psycho-biddy villain.

DP: It was more about finding someone like Bette Davis. Like a really powerful character actor. That was what that comparison was. She's such a powerful performer and every film that she's in, she feels completely different. She hadn't done a role like that before. She hadn't tread into that real horror territory. And so that was just the most exciting thing to us. And, again, there was no way we thought that she would say yes. But hearing how much she loved the script, how much she was responding to it, and then talking to her… But she just really was questioning whether or not she could pull it off. She's like, "I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can execute it." But she gravitated so much towards the character and towards Laura.

Having an actor like that and having someone to collaborate with … she was able to bring so much to that thing. Every single line of dialogue, she was helping develop. It was an amazing process, finding the character with her.

MP: Because a lot of the movie is about what you see and what you don't see. Truth and lies. There's this side to her that's inviting, warm, paternal. And the undercurrent of that, she's spiraling into madness. And she's using her skills as a child psychologist to not help, but to break. So that's the thing, is that she appears as one thing, but is another thing underneath. She just has that presence about her. So seeing her switch in those two was incredible to watch on set. Like, I could not wait. Because we shot the film chronologically as much as possible to help Sora and the kids kind of build to those bigger moments. But then also for Sally's performance to get to those certain beats. And so we were always excited. It's like, "Oh my God, what happens when the pennies drop?"

The role feels so catered to her too. When you're talking about how she kind of appears one way but acts another, it feeds into our expectations of what a Sally Hawkins role is. It kind of weaponizes her whimsy.

DP: Yeah. That's good!

Was that something that developed as she was helping to develop that role?

MP: The character was written in a different way. She was more confronting and –

DP: Well, she was bigger and tougher and –

MP: Strong-headed.

DP: She was always bigger than the kids. And then that casting and then looking at it from a pure character standpoint, an actor brings so much … Everything changes. Who they are and their personality, things shift. And it's just about making the most authentic version of that. That always happens when you're collaborating with the actor.

This movie deals with a lot of heavy themes. Motherhood, grief, the foster care system, abuse. Were you nervous about dealing with some of these heavier themes? Like motherhood especially, was that something that was a challenge for you to try to delve into?

DP: Those collaborations when we're writing and working with our producer, Samantha Jennings, who's such a powerful script editor and such a creative person as well. Her helping steer that ship to and with the interviews that we did and all the people that we spoke to ... It's not just like, "Oh, this is my version of that without doing that research." It's like having those conversations, talking to those people, and pulling from different people and different experiences. All of that sort of stuff helps build the character. That was just the story that we were drawn to at the time, and especially Sam helped us pilot that.

“How she navigates the world and the way that she views it, is so fascinating to us.”

But then even seeing how different people view the world: [Our] friend's younger sister who's non-sighted, listening to her, the way that she speaks with her brother and how she navigates the world and the way that she views it, is so fascinating to us.

So even writing that gives you so much insight on the characters and gives you so many ideas. Writing a character, then going back and then speaking to them about these specific scenes and moments and building themes around their experience, that's the most rewarding thing. It creates this three-dimensional thing.

MP: Yeah, I love diving in. Even with the mythology stuff, with the character stuff, as many conversations that you can have, as many experiences that you can hear ... It just helps fill out the world.

A huge part of this movie is Piper being a non-sighted person and how Laura uses that to manipulate her further. I know you went on an extensive audition process to find Sora. Can you tell me the moment that you knew that you found Piper when you cast her?

DP: It's straightaway. As soon as you see the first audition tapes, they either have it or they don't. And it's never between two actors as well. It's sort of like you know straightaway once you see it. Once we saw Jonah's audition for Oliver, and then once we saw Sora in person –

MP: Well, Sora was in person, so there were a bunch of girls that came in and we did these improv scenes and we did the one with her. We said, "This is the scene. This is your character. This is what you're feeling. And just play through the moment." And she just knocked it out of the park. She wasn't even acting. She was just embodying this moment and playing it through. It was so amazing to watch and she'd never acted before, but I was so blown away by that. We knew she could do it.

And you see that transformation from the beginning of the film to the end, that her... She just got better. Every day was better and better and better. And at the end she's a master.

The central relationship between Piper and Andy is so important, and that's something that is very complicated and naughty because of Andy dealing with his own demons. What was it like navigating that?

MP: You have to trust someone 100% like that in a relationship and he wants to protect her. And so he doesn't want her to see the bad side of the world. He wants her to only see the good, but she needs to be able to see both to navigate life. It's not going to just be this one thing. So that's a big thing about his character, is he's always trying to just show the light side and hiding the dark side.

DP: Even visually showing that as well. When they're at the bus stop, it was so important to us that once she hears that these girls are making fun of her, having the bus come over, block the sun and bring her into shadow. And it's Andy that pulls her out of it and starts saying, "Oh, actually it's fine." And talking without our friend who has the non-sighted sister and the way that he feels like that urge to protect her and then also feeling a bit guilty about that as well sometimes ... It's just an interesting line that they have to sort of tread.

“That’s me, chewing some knives.”

I also want to talk about the most gruesome scenes. During the Q&A, you revealed that one of you actually chewed on knives to make the foley sound for the knife scene.

DP: That’s me, chewing some knives.

Why would you do that?

DP: The sound is just so ... I know. When [I was] writing and eating, anytime a fork [scraped] against a tooth, I was like, "Oogh!" So it's sort of tapping into those things that make you go, "Oogh!" And then putting a lens on that. That's just the part of when you're doing horror.

MP: That's what the cool thing about sound, color, music is that it can convey them in a different way that's not visual and that's what's so cool about, "OK, this is Piper's point of view. This is how Piper sees the world," and her heightened senses. And that's so exciting to do, not just visually, but through sound and color. It adds these layers to the film that you just don't have with just the visuals alone.

DP: [When] finding Piper's visual language — even talking to Cheyenne, who's our friend's sister. She points things out when she can sort of tell when someone's lying. She's like, "I can hear someone's mouth opening.” "I can hear the weight of someone's footsteps." "I can know who someone is when they're walking into the room." Or the smell of someone. She has those really super heightened senses that feel like superpowers.

For the effects, you enlisted Sydney-based effects group, MEG. How over the top did you want to go for the gore? Was there a vision that you had for how gory that this movie would be? Were there moments that you wanted to pull back, like the knife scene, because you don't want to make this movie too unwatchable?

DP: You always try and find that line. And sometimes that is found in the edit, when you're putting it together. Knowing when to not cross it too far or go to the point of it being gratuitous. And always making sure those moments or those scenes are rooted in character and they're thematic. And also a big shoutout to ScarecrowFX, who was the other makeup team that was on here. It was just all about how we execute everything practically, that was always the number one thing. How do we eat the knife practically? How do we eat the table practically?

MP: Without eating it, practically.

DP: It's always about having a foot in reality. I like that it doesn't feel too monster-y. Like, we see the demon that's inside Oliver, but you're only seeing that in the reflections.

I wanted to ask about Oliver's degrading appearance too. With the flesh falling off the bones and the engorged belly — what specific elements did you want to emphasize?

DP: Well, definitely the stomach — [it’s like the demon is] going to consume this body, consume the soul. So the belly was an important thing. Another really important thing was practical lenses. I love those full scleras and custom designing this thing where the retina is bleeding into the rest of the eye and looks like egg yolk.

MP: It’s grief eating you alive and a physical representation of that, is Oliver. He's degrading –

DP: And Laura's turning this victim into a monster there.

MP: Talking with those makeup artists about that stuff and then coming up with the look, and then [talking] through with Jonah as well. Because it's such a line to tread between it being too much and then too little. So it was always finding that balance between the look and the performance and he nailed it.

DP: Yeah, he can't act too monster-y where it feels like the reality isn't there if he's running around like, "Rawr-lugh-lugh-lugh!"

After a slow burn character-driven film like this, for your next project, would you want to tap into your YouTube action roots and go for another different direction? Or is this something that you want to keep pursuing?

DP: No. Yeah, the next project is so different.

MP: The next project's a documentary on deathmatch wrestling. So it's like professional wrestling, but an extreme form where they use real weapons –

DP: And it's a pretty loud movie, right?

MP: They just brutalize themselves. It's completely different energy to this stuff, and it's a different genre as well. So we're excited about that. That's what we're going to be focusing on next. And then we'll see, I guess.

You're also working on Talk to Me 2, or Talk 2 Me.

DP: Very smart, huh?!

MP: There's a big debate about it. Do you think Talk 2 Me is good or is it too on the nose?

“It was so sad stepping away from Street Fighter.”

I like Talk 2 Me because I feel like it matches the tone of the movie. It's a little bit playful, but it's a horror movie still.

DP: Yeah, yeah! Well, we've got two versions of the script and are following different characters, and so they feel like two different movies. And it's all about stepping away from it for enough time that we come at it with a fresh approach and look at it through a fresh perspective. I definitely wanted a bit of a break away from it and then return at a time that we're really, really excited to pursue it. So it doesn't feel like we're rehashing the same thing.

MP: Oh, we're not going to leave it too long … 2045.

Probably no chance of a Bring Her Back sequel, right?

DP: It feels pretty self-contained. But we had such a big backstory. I'd love to see Laura kidnapping Oliver. A prequel.

I mean, they did it with Paranormal Activity.

DP: See, they did! Yes. And it's set on all the VHS cameras as well. I love Paranormal Activity 3.

Well, I know that you're no longer attached to the Street Fighter movie.

DP: Ugh!

I would love to see your version, but do you have another dream gaming movie adaptation that you guys would want to do?

DP: It still would be Street Fighter. We're writing an action film at the moment as well. So that's one that's exciting, because that is where we come from. That's our route. So doing a film like that would be amazing. It's just those things where we've got so many different projects and they're all being developed and it's which one catches fire? Which one are we most passionate about at that time?

Bring Her Back opens in theaters May 30.